It is the art of bringing two sides together. A facilitator (neutral party) attempts to get both sides to make concessions to the point where an agreement can be worked out. No one gets what they want, 100%.
What we saw Friday was not the work of a peacemaker. What we saw was two men who had already decided how things were going to be, and tried to back Zelenskyy into a corner and force him to do their bidding.
That is not the work of a peacemaker. What we saw had nothing to do with diplomacy.
Extortion: The act of obtaining something through force or threats.
I cannot believe the number of people who believe that the United States acquitted themselves honorably.
I saw the exchange.
I saw no honor.
That above is a quote from Leo Tolstoy.
Russia hasn't changed a great deal in some respects, has it?
Exactly. I saw a great interview on the BBC where a trump follower over there was arguing in favor of his behavior because it would end the fighting. She asked him that, if Russia invaded the UK like they invaded Ukraine, how much would he give away to stop the fighting? How much land would you just give Russia, how much of our mineral rights? He said, well that is different. Ha. No. Their minds were made up. The solution was to let Russia just take a country away from their citizens in exchange for the United States (trump/muck) getting their valuable mineral rights. Deplorable.
ReplyDeleteI read a facebook post from an acquaintance who said that Ukraine MUST surrender...or Putin will be at our doorstep. She went on quite emotionally about bombs dropped our on country, on our children. I did not respond. No point. But what I immediately sprang to my mind, what my fingers itched to type was 'if you can get so emotional about protecting ourselves from a prospective attack from Putin, just imagine how emotional Ukraine feels after dealing with the attacks for three years now.
DeleteThere was so much wrong with in her words. Imagine being faced by a mugger in an alley and your response is to save yourself by throwing another person in front of you to take the assault.
You nailed it, there was no Diplomacy from this Regime and there never will be, they are Extortionists and act like a Syndicated Crime Ring who will be Parasites to any Host they can get Blood out of to gorge themselves upon. That includes the American People as well as any other Nation and it's people. They have no Honor or Moral Compass, the Ukrainian President is a True Leader, who has Class and a Real Love for his Country and it's People. If only we had that kind of Leadership, instead of the fuckery and shitshow representing America and bringing such shame and embarrassment. We are fast becoming the Pariahs of the World, and cannot be Trusted with this Administration in place.
ReplyDelete'Extortion' was the word I was grasping around for. Thanks, Bohemian. There is a big difference between the two words, isn't there?
DeleteIt was beyond disgraceful. I tried watching the whole thing again today and I felt sick. I want to give Zelensky a hug.
ReplyDeleteI've been focusing on his remarks and interviews after that display. He certainly does speak powerfully.
DeleteOnly one person came out of that looking like a real man and he isn't American.
ReplyDeleteTruth.
DeleteThis admin is the lowest of the low.
ReplyDeleteAnd yet so many people don't seem to see it. I will never understand this. I've quit reading social media all together. Too many people are applauding the behavior.
DeleteDebby surely you're not surprised... these are clowns and monsters, nothing more, nothing less. I can't believe it's only been 2 months!
ReplyDeleteNot surprised, Doug. Just sad. Very sad. Hey...btw...there's a comment in your spam folder.
DeleteI am beyond despair. And I cannot watch that awful display of bullying again. I'm just glad we have each other.
ReplyDeleteWe do have each other. Sometimes we need to look away from that trainwreck and simply look around us. There are a lot of us standing around, mouths agape, saying "What in the actual &%$# just happened?"
DeleteThe talk is that trump was recruited by the KGB many years ago to be a Putin “asset”. It is starting to look like that. Gigi
ReplyDeleteI never heard the KGB story, but I do believe that, as Patrushev said, "Donald Trump relied on certain forces to win the election and now he has corresponding obligations."
DeleteI'm glad that so many here and around the world are rallying around Ukraine and Zelensky and expressing disgust with Trump and Vance. Seeing him babbling on TV about Hunter Biden and Hilary showed the world how unhinged and unfit he is.
ReplyDeleteIt was crazy. I could not believe it was happening...and yet GOP is saying, "I've never been prouder of our country..." I wonder if they actually believe their own words?
DeleteThe Orange Bastard thinks he deserves a Peace prize! He's so jealous of Obama getting one!
ReplyDeleteI will continue to hope that everyone the Orange Bastard has put in place, including his Muskrat, will be rounded up and charged with treason!
Glad to see you back, Marcia. I was starting to worry about you. It does seem as if Europe has begun to show some pretty strong resolve. Norway has been very vocal. I'm glad to see it.
DeleteMy husband and I are on two different sides now. He didn't like Trump the first time, but he agrees about a lot of the things he is doing. He thinks America needs to keep our money at home, for one thing. He can have his own views, but if we are watching the news, he starts talking about his opinion. Now I have gotten to the place I can watch the news without getting depression, but I have tried my best to keep my mouth shut, it's hard. I told him I know his feelings and he knows mine about this thing, and I don't want to talk about it. Hopefully, he will listen. He probably will, because the last time Trump was president, I had to get pills from the doctor for depression and I'm still taking them, at least through the winter. He doesn't want me in depression again!
ReplyDeleteDonna, this makes me sad to read. I'm not sure that Cliff can actually be classified as 'MAGA', but as things continue to devolve (and make no mistake, they will) his supporters will begin to wake up, one by one, as they feel the effects of the administration's actions. I wish that I could give you a hug. Celebrate what you can. Strongly suggest going outside to play with goats while your husband watches the news! Also strongly suggest that you take lots of pictures for us poor souls with no goats!
DeleteHe isn't Maga. And I really don't care if we disagree, I just don't want to talk about our views, I won't talk about what I think and he won't talk about what he thinks.
DeleteYou are right. That was in no way a negotiation.
ReplyDeleteThat was in no way a peace talk.
DeleteThe meeting was a despicable example of poor behavior.
ReplyDeleteI agree with your assessment, Red.
DeleteIt was a televised ambush for the benefit of Trump's ill-informed voters. Fortunately most of the world saw through it.
ReplyDeleteNailed it, Steve!
DeleteAfter WW1, the British Ambassador, Auckland Geddes, met US Secretary of State, Charles Evans Hughes, expecting a friendly conversation. Instead, he was told that America had just saved Britain, and we had better be grateful. ‘You would not be here to speak for Britain – you would not be speaking anywhere, England would not be able to speak at all. It is the German Kaiser who would be heard if America – seeking nothing for herself but to save England – had not plunged into the war and won it.’
ReplyDeleteDuring the 1956 Suez Crisis, the chief of the US Navy, Admiral Arleigh Burke, discussed opening fire on British warships, in a conversation with Secretary of State John Foster Dulles.
And when Bill Clinton decided in 1993 to support and befriend Sinn Fein’s Gerry Adams, the British Embassy in Washington was not told. Relations between Prime Minister John Major and Clinton almost broke down.
Donald Trump is from an older tradition of American foreign policy, ‘America First’, which in 1939 and 1940 campaigned hard against the US aiding Britain against Hitler. This was not a pro-Nazi movement, its members were liberals and socialists. It was just an expression of an American desire to stay out of foreign quarrels, as expressed by George Washington.
This policy has returned and pushed aside the idealists who have tried to impose what they see as democracy on the whole world. It has also ended the policy of trying to keep Russia from rising again.
Normally, discussions like that are never held in public. No one wants to see the sausage made. There's a good substack, which is partially pay walled, about how the White House is being run like a reality show, specifically The Apprentice. Everything will be created to present the great man as a deal maker, when in actuality he's a mob boss. I'm still not sure why he's letting Elon have so much air time, and why it's ok that Elon is not wearing a suit. I am sick about the whole thing.
ReplyDeletePubMed, a repository of scientific journal articles about research, has been down for two days. There is great trepidation that they've pulled the plug on science.
It was meant to be a public spectacle, I think. I did hear, (yesterday, I think?) that RFK has now decided that measles is a top priority for him and his team, who will work to eradicate it. Ironic...that had already been done once. We'll see how they manage it without science.
DeleteI agree with everything you have said.
ReplyDeleteI can tell you, a neighbor and previous long time conservative thinker, no longer supports DT. He also feels VP has something on DT and this defines their relationship.
It is my understanding that VP would not agree to European military forces assigned to maintain borders as part of the peace agreement between Russia and Ukraine. When DT was told VP would not agree to the peace terms, he systematically blew up the meeting.
In my view, DT concocted a stunt that works to make the US look very bad and does nothing for world peace.
France and England are meeting with VZ to plan the next move. The EU and NATO countries are concerned because if VP takes Ukraine, who will be next.
Go back to the Newsweek article of November 12th, the one that quotes Patrushev in a Tass interview.
DeleteThat is an interesting thing, Susan, to think that the meeting was sabotaged intentionally, because VP wanted it to be. I think that by tRUMP's announcement that Z did not want peace, or was not ready for it, or whatever the actual quote was, that was for the benefit of Russia. To make them look like Ukraine was the block, not them.
I am disgusted that so many GOP are simply swallowing that line and sinker.
The felon has no diplomatic skills. His life has been lived as a bully and that won't change. Trying to negotiate with a bully is pointless.
ReplyDeleteYou cannot negotiate with someone who refuses to listen. Period.
DeleteAgree with all the above. Good to see Vance and Trump being booed. How long before demonstrations are banned?
ReplyDeleteWell, we shall see, because it does seem as if the pushback is getting louder.
DeleteHi Debby, I am so thankful for your blog and the comments here. You help keep me feeling less despair. I want to send you a link but it seems to have disappeared. If I can I'll send it on.
ReplyDeleteMary
https://www.facebook.com/share/p/1BRYwfgnQK/
ReplyDeleteAll I've heard and seen is thorough disapproval, disgust really, at what happened. Zelenskyy should have punched them both in their pitiful faces.
ReplyDeleteOh no. That would have given an opportunity to portray Ukraine and its leadership as barbarians. I think that Zelenskyy did right. He maintained his cool. He left. Within hours, he was giving interviews, and they were good interviews. Here is someone who can keep his logic and intellect separate from his emotions. I admire that. It is something that I strive for, but I am not always successful.
DeleteIn my opinion, that is what tRUMP and Vance were aiming for...they wanted him to lose his cool, and he did not.
I respect that.