One of the very best things about blogging is that I cannot tell you the times that I've read something somewhere else, and thought, "Oh gees. I thought I was the only one..." It makes me feel part of the human race to know that we all have our little oddities and are perfectly nice people despite our quirks. Blogs make me feel much more 'normal', whatever that is!
So here's one that I'm going to throw out there.
Some people pray to God to 'fix' things. I used to, however taking an Education for Ministry course has stripped away my belief in the Bible as the literal word of God. A classmate's assertion that "God wants a pure race' set me on a road of unbelief.
As the years go by, I am witnessing a shocking sort of Christianity emerging in my country. It is elitist, it demands power, it demands the right to choose everyone else's life. It's dismissive of a large swath of misery happening in this world, even in this country, right this very minute. Right before our very eyes. Over and over, we see the biggest faces on this movement falling into scandal. Their laws do not apply to them, just everyone else.
But as Ecclesiastes tells us, 'there is nothing new under the sun.' We've seen these people before. These Christians bear a keen resemblance to the Pharisee of old. For all their noise, Jesus had quite a bit to say about them. But. Here we are. The Bible thumpers evidently are not reading the book they demand everyone else be reading.
So. I don't believe any more. I don't feel as if I've lost anything. I don't feel that I've gained anything. It's hard to explain, and there is no one more shocked than me that this has happened, but here I am.
I still believe in Good, though. Is God and Good the same thing? I kind of feel like it may be. Then I turn around and feel that maybe it's not. But anyways, I still feel that my responsibility as a human being is to do good, as much as I can, whereever I am, whenever I get a chance.
I guess that I kind of like the idea of the 'butterfly effect', the idea that this world is more interconnected than we can possibly understand, which means that a small kindness can affect another, which affects another, and another and ad infinitum. Maybe it's silly. Maybe it is just me, wanting to believe that I can do something, anything, to make a difference.
Sure beats feeling helpless.
Of all the things that I have learned in 66 years, I can't fix things. I can try to make things easier, but sometime back I realized that trying to fix the unfixable was like beating my head against a brick wall. I also can't pray to a God that I no longer believe in to fix it. Understanding that I can't fix things does not mean that I don't want to, though.
So. I struggle.
What to do, what to do?
At the end of the year, in despair, I just kind of threw it all out into the universe, my 'barbaric yawp', and I wait for what comes next. Will my echo of myself return to me? Will it go out into the world, perhaps to make a difference? I listen, but have not heard anything yet.
I feel quite ridiculous trying to explain the inexplicable.
But I still have to ask: am I the only one?
LATE EDIT: Thank you for your comments. I know that I am not alone in feeling alienated from organized religion. I know that I am not alone in my absense of faith. I guess my question more about my sense of helplessness in the face of all the awful events of the world. I used to be a person who prayed and left it all in the hands of someone greater than myself. In the absense of that, I watch the world burning down down all around me, and I just feel lost. What does one do? All I can come up with is be as kind as I can, wherever I can, whenever I can and hope, hope, HOPE that somehow there is a connection that I don't understand.
Redneck Geologist, I really, really think you understood where I was going with this better than anyone. I can't reply to your comment probably for the same reason that you can't comment under your own name. Am I less happy that I used to be? I think probably you're right. The world is so ugly and heartbreaking right now, and on a scale that I have never witnessed before. It really breaks my heart. Now it used to be that I could simply sit down and pray my heart out and then walk away feeling I had done something to address the ills of the world. But it seems like I haven't been able to figure out just what I should be doing. This awful sense of futility.
I am interested when you say that you still believe in God. That you still have faith. I would love to sit down with you and have a good long talk about this. I'd like to feel as if the world is in the hands of someone greater than me.
Marcia in Colorado here ... No, you are not alone in thinking the way you do! I am right there with you ... a true believer turned non-believer due to what is going on around us and around the World!
ReplyDeleteThanks for putting it all out there in the light of day!
I was an agnostic until I was 30. I never thought I would be dealing with that again. Life is sure strange, isn't it?
DeleteWell, I never did believe in any religion so I don't feel I have lost anything. However, I do believe that even without a deity of any shape or colour we all have the ability to choose to be good and do the right thing, although not everyone makes that choice.. It is in our power to choose - we shouldn't need to be told by a ruling cadre of self appointed prophets.
ReplyDelete(From someone who never comments on religion or poltics! 😳)
You expressed it well. I guess I never felt like anyone was telling me what to do or think. That has begun to change and I don't see that as a positive thing.
DeleteEvery time I did psychedelics, I came away with the absolute vision that everything is indeed connected. In fact, all is one. I still believe that. And in believing that, I also believe that the more good we can do, the better for all.
ReplyDeleteAs for religion- it angers me more every day. Lies upon lies to control humanity. An excuse not to ask the really hard questions, not to try and figure out the really hard answers. Most of the so-called Christians these days have no idea what Christ's message was. If there was a Christ. And then to promise that that guy died to save them from their sins and a burning eternity and yet, tell them that everything they do is a sin is ridiculous and abhorrent. And the patriarchy! Don't get me started.
Just the very idea that one's own religion is the true one, their god the real one is absurd.
And that is how I feel about it and I do not apologize for it.
I have never done any kind of psychedelics. I would like to think that the world is tied together somehow. I know that my heart really grieves for the children of this world.
DeleteAt least I can be in the company of like minds with blogs and a few friends. However, family? Not so much. Jackie
ReplyDeleteYes. I am well and truly a misfit here as well.
DeleteWhat I no longer have any use for is Orginized Religion which I believe is no longer Christian in too many of its curches. I still pray, but it's for everyone, everywhere and for all living things plus the planet.
ReplyDeleteAs a quilter, I donate quilts of various sizes to improve the good in the world. Remember "God is great, God is good"? I try to be good and don't aspire to being great!
AND I VOTE. :)
Wishing everyone well!
This resonated with me. Thank you Barbara Anne.
DeleteYou're not the only one and it's a question I tussle with regularly. How can bad things happen to good people, why are there so many fools in power? and yet, somehow, I think, hope, believe that there must be something greater than we puny mortals, that this world cannot have happened by chance from a soup of chemicals and gases. I am confused (frequently!) by listening and reading opinions by scientists who are atheists or agnostics or practising their religion in simplicity. I don't know the answers and wonder if the further scientists explore, the more questions will be raised. Actually, that's one thing I am sure of - there will always be more questions.
ReplyDeleteJanice from jabblog, not known for brevity . . .
There is an awful lot to muddle through. Wish we were neighbors
DeleteNo you are not alone and I am suddenly finding myself liking you even more, Debby. I will leave it at that.
ReplyDeleteYou are a good egg, Doug.
DeleteUnknown? Really, you need to ID. It is fine to have strong opinions but if you will not identify yourself, you lack the courage of your convictions.
ReplyDeleteOrganized religion is a business. They are not what they should be. I do believe in God and that everyone has the right to their own beliefs. I haven't gone to church in years. I am a long time reader and I think you aren't as happy as you were before you lost your faith. Maybe it is just things happening in your life. I don't know. You don't have to go to church to have faith. For some reason I haven't been able to comment under my google account, Redneck Geologist
ReplyDeleteI replied above. I think you understood what I was trying to say. I find it interesting that your faith and belief is independent of church. I have so many questions I wish I could ask you
DeleteI just cannot fathom that people take the bible literally and believe it is the actual word of God. It has been translated and re-translated over and over. Every time something is translated, the original thoughts and meaning are changed as languages cannot be translated word for word. Translators can and do agonize for days over the word or phrase that they feel the original writer was trying to convey. One ill chosen word can change the entire meaning of a sentence or paragraph.
ReplyDeleteThe Gospels were cherry picked by the Council of Nicaea and only the ones that fit the narrative they were trying to create made it in. The others were thrown out.
How many millions or billions over the ages on this earth have been killed over religion? Right now, how many wars are being fought over different versions of the same thing?
Like you Debby, I believe in good. I work hard to be a good, compassionate, loving and honest person. I cannot believe that if there is a heaven and a hell, I will burn in lakes of fire for eternity because I did not go to church and a mass murderer will go to heaven if 15 minutes before his death he accepts Jesus Christ as his lord and savior.
I don't ever think I viewed God that way. I was told early on that it was because I was an immature Christian, but for the 35 years I believed, I never saw it any differently.
DeleteHaving been raised in a fundamentalist family, and spending countless hours in bible study, sermons, and all of that, even as a teen organist, children's Sunday school teacher, I felt like I was living a lie. I COULD not believe in the old man in the sky who watched every one of us in case we strayed from the lessons some other old men had thought up and written down. Now I have satisfied myself that there is no god who would allow the horrible things that happen in this world....the butchering of old people and little children, the floods, the fires, the horrible disasters. When someone says, "it is god's will", I am even more convinced that this world's is brain washed by generations of ignorance. We are all in control of our own lives to a certain degree and create our own destiny, and the rest is beyond our control or accidental.
ReplyDeleteI would be very curious about the roots of your doubts. It seems to have started early on. What made you begin to question?
DeleteI’m a humanist……I forget this sometimes when I listen to the news. That’s why I seldom listen anyone
ReplyDeleteBut I still think the goodness of people will prevail
I like to think so
If ever I wanted to believe anything with my whole heart, this would be it, John.
DeleteI agree with you, Debby. I was raised Catholic but left that a while back and don't believe in god anymore. It just isn't logical when you think it through.
ReplyDeleteI do keep the lesson of "treat others as you want to be treated" and "be kind to one another." That's about all I think we need.
Catholicism is probably the faith I understand the very least. Making up our mind to live by the golden rule is really all we CAN do, isn't it?
DeleteYou're not alone, Debby.
ReplyDeleteI agree with what's been shared by you, Ms. Moon, Barbara Anne, jabblog, Hummingbird, and Ana Dunk. You've all expressed much more elegantly the feelings I share, and with more clarity than I could do with such an emotionally fraught subject... emotions swinging from profound sorrow to outrage.
Thank you for talking about the easy subjects and the hard subjects in your blog.
Mostly what I feel is sorrow and it is for the children. I wish I had a magic wand.
DeleteI think most people in the world want to be good and do good but at times beliefs can get in the way, or their interpretations of beliefs. Anyone who takes the bible literally is a fool as they pick and choose between bits that suit their purpose. We can try to fix things but if we fail, at least we have tried and that's the important part.
ReplyDeleteI wish I could fix it.
Delete" I am witnessing a shocking sort of Christianity emerging in my country. It is elitist, it demands power, it demands the right to choose everyone else's life. It's dismissive of a large swath of misery happening in this world, even in this country, right this very minute. Right before our very eyes. Over and over, we see the biggest faces on this movement falling into scandal. Their laws do not apply to them, just everyone else. "
ReplyDeleteAlthough I too read about some of this occurring, I certainly wouldn't paint it on all who call themselves Christians, or even most. All the Christians I know are exactly quite the opposite of what you described above. They are meek, demand nothing of you and aren't dismissive but actively pray for the ills going on around the world. Likewise, there are plenty of atheist around the world who are doing bad. Jim Jones and Jeffrey Dahmer both come to mind. I certainly wouldn't label all atheist to be in the same group.
Bottom line, we have freedom of religion which includes the freedom to not practice any religion by default.
It was not my intent to paint all Christians with that brush.
DeleteI've been thinking of this and trying hard to pose it rightly and inoffensively. You may not see not see that sort of Christianity in your part of the world. I'm glad you don't. However, when you say, "I, too, read about this happening," what you are doing is dismissing it. Dang media! Always blowing it out of proportion.
DeleteExcept: It is not the media blowing this out of proportion. It IS happening. There is a Evangelical movement, and this movement aims to make this nation "one nation under God". It is being said outright.
The media is not perfect. I give you that. But the media is not destroying our country.
Oh, I don't dismiss it because at least to me, it is obvious the damage a small group (my assumption) is doing to our country, especially through our former and perhaps next president. I think they are something we need to take seriously.
DeleteI do have a love hate relationship with our media. They frustrate me at times with their sensationalism designed to increase ratings at the expense of inciting fear. But I think we have the best media in the world as far as getting the truth out to the people. My advice it to not avoid the media, but to use it as a starting point to educate oneself on the matter at hand.
you are definitely not the only one well done well done for speaking up its always a sticky subject I am always amazed that some very educated people can possibly believe all the bible says. carol
ReplyDeleteThe literalists are so very close minded.
DeleteI think one can be spiritual without being a follower of any particular religion.
ReplyDeleteI believe this to be true. Maybe I need to quit worrying the rest of it and focus inward.
DeleteSing it sister! (Love the Whitman reference)
ReplyDeleteHowl it, more like.
DeleteI just believe in the golden rule. If everyone did there wouldn’t be so many problems in the world. Gigi
ReplyDeleteAnd you are right, Gigi.
DeleteWhen I was 16 years old, I gave up believing any more. The behavior of my little church congregation left me stunned. It grew up to be a mega church, which may explain its belief path early on. So I grew my life on doing the right thing, doing good, being kind. Doesn't always work out, but on the whole it's OK.
ReplyDeleteI cannot imagine.
DeleteI am very interested in this conversation. A short time ago I was talking to a 17 year old girl and mentioned that I am an atheist. She was amazed and said I was the first old person she ever met who was an atheist. I laughed it off but thinking about it, my age has allowed me to see enough of life and how prayers don't work that have come to the conclusion that there is no god. I am almost jealous of the believers because they can put it in Gods hands and have faith whereas I feel at times that it is hopeless. My personal life is fine, but the current state of the US and the world is very worrisome. I wish there was a god who could make all of the right decisions for the world but I just don't see it. Too much illness, drug dependence, child abuse, violence,hatred,etc. for me to believe.
ReplyDeleteAnd that is it, right there! I find myself thinking it was easier when I believed.
DeleteThank you. Thank you for the post and thank you everyone for your comments. I used to be very active in my church. I thought we were a family. I taught first grade Sunday School for over 15 years (and marched my children to class, too). Then I switched to teaching our junior high confirmation class for six years. I joined the Ladies group in my 30s and was quickly elected secretary (because I was a real life secretary and could take minutes) where I served for several decades. I was on the church festival committee and head of the dinner tickets sales. I was on a team that cooked dishes for funeral dinners. And then it was 2015. And people at my church just turned vicious. They would accuse anyone who didn't support DT of not being patriot and brushed off concerns about sexual assault. That was the biggie. I started to wonder what went on in their homes that they felt comfortable with it. I started eying husbands and sons and, instead of paying attention to a sermon, worried about the women in their lives. I started to hear vulgar racism about the outgoing president -from people I would have never dreamed felt that way. I started staying away from church, I resigned from the Ladies, I stepped away from youth activities. I did still volunteer for the festival. After the election I was in the kitchen helping with clean up when a woman who thought she was pretty important in the church started ridiculing me in front of others about my political beliefs. A few of my adult sons just happened to be in another corner washing dishes. I think prior to this my family thought a lot of this was me being dramatic. I made a joke out of it and left. My sons said nothing but expressed shock I hadn't decked her, lol. But they have never returned to church and neither have I.
ReplyDeleteThis follow the bible crap is something I have seen through since high school when I announced to the youth group that the bible was not "written by Jesus" but was written by men who heard stories that had been around for hundreds of years and put their own spin on it then those stories had been translated over and over for hundreds of years by men. And don't quote that Jesus doesn't support women's rights to me. Yep, that's me. Always the trouble maker. I think I believe in a God, maybe a nicer God instead of a vindictive God that my church threatened me with? And maybe a God that can't prevent bad things from happening? I dont' know. I just know I am done with organized church.
Yikes. I am so sorry that happened to you. I understand though. I was so dumbfounded when the woman said God wanted racial purity. And everyone sat there. I felt like I was the only one horrified. I said, "no...you have him mixed up with Adolph Hitler." I left the zoom meeting and spent a week thinking about it. I couldn't go back. The leader thought I was blowing it out of proportion.
DeleteGood gosh! You are definitely not the only one.
ReplyDeleteThis was an awesome post. You are very brave to put it right out there. And you already know where I stand.
My grandfather was a Buddhist priest. When I traveled to Japan for the first time and met him, I asked what the best religion was. He did not say Buddhism. He said, "There is no religion that is best. It is what a person does with his or her religion that makes it best for that person and the people around him.
One of the things that really gets my goat is when they interview someone who survived a catastrophe when others perished and they say, "God saved me." Why would you think God decided to save only you and not the others?
Why would God choose to have 6 million Jews killed by the pure race of Nazis?
I do try to follow many of the Buddhist beliefs of kindness and understanding towards others, of trying your best, not to pray for changing something that cannot be changed but for strength within yourself to deal with it.
Thank you for this very enlightening post, Debby.
I think your grandfather and I would have found a great deal of common ground.
DeleteIsn't it amazing how many of us believe as you do, Debby? I'm so glad you shared your thoughts so beautifully. Thank you again.
DeleteGreat piece of writing to describe how you came to where you are. Interpretations of the bible are nuts. Everybody seems to come up with their own opinion. I agree with what you've said and you've said it well.
ReplyDeleteThanks Red. People do read the Bible and come up with their own opinions. There are just too many people who are ready to fight to the death, convinced that there interpretations of their holy book is the only right way.
DeleteI don't take the Bible literally. I've been all over the place on religion, totally ignored it for years. I'm probably back for good. I always liked going to church, so I'm going again. I would never see anybody to talk to besides family anywhere else. I go to the Methodist church, then walk the two blocks to the Baptist church. The Baptists are very much evangelicals and all for Trump. I like them as friends, but there are a lot of things I don't agree with. I just keep my mouth shut. I enjoy the Methodists, who are definitely NOT evangelicals. I don't try to change anybody. If you don't believe, nobody can force you to believe. I've been there and back more than once, so I know that's true.
ReplyDeleteI could never, for a minute, sit quietly in the face of that.
DeleteBaptists mostly think their way is right and everybody else is wrong. The church I was raised in wasn't Baptist, but that's pretty much how they were, too. There is no one denomination with which I agree wholeheartedly. But I've found I am not happy without Jesus, so I CHOOSE to believe in him.
DeleteI was an Episcopalian, and I liked that, because it didn't matter what you believed, there was room for you. That is the only place I've experienced that kind of non-judgemental acceptance.
DeleteI suspect that the problem with organized religion is that leadership, including religious leadership, inevitably attracts people who like power. And people who like power are typically not the most benevolent, selfless, and giving individuals.
ReplyDeleteI suspect that there is a lot of truth to this. Please ID yourself in the future.
DeleteI believe in the divine, whatever that is. A love that binds us all together? A piece of the divine within all of us, human, animals and plants that binds us together? I'm not sure anymore. I used to pray everynight, pray for peace, pray for an end to fighting and killing and nothing changed and I wondered if it made any difference. I don't think god controls the world or us but rather is a part of us. I've almost completely given up praying which makes me sad sometimes. The world is such a mess right now, both close to home and globally, it breaks my heart. The one prayer I haven't given up, is my prayer to keep my grandsons safe and to protect them from their parents.
ReplyDeleteI didn't mention evangelists and their particular perversion of the bible and christianity, it sickens me and I'm damned sure that Jesus wouldn't have been welcome among them.
ReplyDeleteThat is interesting Pixie, because I have thought for a long time that God is not "up there". I felt as if he is the stuff of life, the 'protoplasm' for lack of a better word, that holds us all together. And perhaps that thing right there is the source of my unbelief. I can no longer see the divine in others in most cases. Boy. Have you ever opened a door! Thank you so much!
ReplyDeleteWow, what a gold mine this blog turned out to be! There's a regular library abuilding here! Thank you so much for this post. It took courage. You are certainly not alone. I am with you 100%. Will try not to write a book. My childhood--- parents did not attend church. I was the oldest of 8. Mother very happy for me to attend church with anybody who wanted to take me. When I was about 9, I was going regularly with 2 elderly neighbor women. Then, I missed a few Sundays. Women weren't happy, I guess. Somebody wrote some profanity in the dirt on their car. They told my stepfather that they had seen me do it! But I didn't. I got a leather belt whipping because of it. Didn't do much for my faith in people who went to church. Then, awhile later, early teens, got very involved with an "independent" church. Neighbors. Twice every Sunday, Wednesday nights, and knocking on doors in between. I believed so much. Fantastic preacher. Had me crying, was so involved with his sermons. Then. Church picnic. No shorts allowed! Mother was having none of that. End of the road for me. Cried myself to sleep for months afterward.
ReplyDeleteThis already too long! Anyway. Went off to college. Lived in dorm. Met the most genuinely religious person I'd ever known. She was a hispanic Catholic. I can hear her say "Madre Purísima" still. I converted to Catholicism. She was my "madrina" when I was baptized for the second time. In a couple of years met the man I was to marry. Divorced. Took SEVEN years for the Catholic Church to give us an ok to marry in the church! (We went early to JP). During that 7 years my madrina came to visit for a few days. Religion? She said, "you don't still believe in that stuff, do you?" What???
I taught for five years in Catholic schools. Was appalled at some of the things that went on. Nuns screamed and pulled kids' hair. A little six year old wet his pants once in a while. His teacher's punishment was to make him stay in the courtyard and have his classmates tease him.
But we attended Mass every day.
Enough. In later years I encountered more and more things that just didn't add up. If god can save us from a tornado, why does he permit it in the first place? I don't understand why a god who loves us would require that we beg him to heal the sick, etc.
During my husband's several years with Alzheimer's, I wished so much that I could take him to a church. The social part of it would have been so good for him. But I could not, cannot, pretend to believe something when I don't. I wish I could have kept my teenage faith.
I think the events that are going on in today's world have exacerbated our feelings of helplessness and hopelessness. The future looks bleak.
The answer to your question? You are NOT the only one.
You have really experience the full gamut, haven't you? I do understand the longing though.
DeleteI love Dolores Cannon's explanation of god, which she simply calls source. There are dozens of YouTube videos of her explaining god. There isn't any of the religious/scary/mind control stuff around it; it's where science and love meet. I never had faith to begin with because I was taught that as long as I had "bad" thoughts, there was no redemption for me. Alrighty then, sinner it is! To me, the church, religion and patriarchy go hand in hand, in order to control the masses, but mostly to control women (and that's another can of worms, for sure). My now belief is that there is nothing to pray to, only I can control what I think and feel, and therefore my behaviors/life. Esther Hicks has many YouTube videos as well about source and our thoughts and manifestation. And not just manifesting money, cars, etc., but manifesting our lives. VERY interesting.
ReplyDeleteI promise to go hunting for her.
DeleteThat segment of Christianity has gone topsy turvy. It has become a cult of epic proportions.
ReplyDeleteIt seems to be headed that way.
DeleteI read your post, but I'm not going to even look at the comments. I get incredibly frustrated by the fact that so many non-belivers (in particular, lapsed believers) are toxic and vehement in their desire to rage against Christians (or any faith, in some instances). I am a Christian and make no apologies for my beliefs. I don't pray to God to fix things. I don't pray to God in an attempt to change His mind. I don't take the Bible literally. I don't believe God causes the evil in this world. I don't believe the government (at any level) has the right to make decisions about a woman's reproductive health. I don't judge or condemn others for what they believe or don't believe. It disappoints me that when I say I'm a Christian, most people make automatic assumptions about me, likening me to a vocal minority of Christians who, in my opinion, don't represent Christ at all. If asked, I'm always willing to share what I think (and why, if I can put it into words), but I'm never going to force what I believe down another person's throat. I only ask that others give me the same courtesy. I could go on and on, but I've learned most conversations like this are best had in person, face to face. I'll shut up now.
ReplyDeleteYou are one of MY people. You said it perfectly. I am not ashamed of being a Christian.
DeleteI feel the same way Kelly.
DeleteI am very glad you didn't shut up Kelly. I would not want anyone to feel shamed or unable to speak freely. It had been on my mind since all this uncertainty began that I should not say anything that sways anyone else not to believe. I don't want to be responsible for that. I am married to a Christian.
DeleteI don't hate Christians. I am almost jealous of them. I wish I did believe but I just can't. I respect your faith. Its funny but I feel disrespected because I am not a believer. I have had friends and family tell me that I do believe and tell my son the same. Huh? I don't know my own beliefs? They just can't accept that in me.
DeleteRedneck Geologist here. I would love to talk to you.
ReplyDeleteDo you see my e-mail?
DeleteNo. It isn't in my spam folder either.
DeleteI don't see a google profile for you, because you're anonymous. If you look at the top of my blog, you'll see 'about me'. Click on my name. On the left hand side, you'll see 'e-mail'. Click on that and you will have my e-mail address.
Delete