Sunday, June 26, 2022

The Fecal Material Hits the Rotary Oscillator


My comments to Ellie yesterday were sincere. I have no wish to quarrel. Ed and I see things differently and we have e-mail discussions. My comments to him were sincere. I appreciate his patience and the fact that we can bounce our different perspectives off one another and at the end of it, he is still someone I regard highly. Kelly, ditto. Bob, ditto. 

Today, a relative posted on Facebook: 

Let me be clear. I disagree with the recent Supreme Court decision re: Rowe Vs. Wade. I also do not believe any person should be treated differently due to their gender, color, race, beliefs. I believe that the second amendment needs some work and that it is a matter of common sense. Probably one hundred and one things that people might find controversial in their hearts are not controversial at all in mine. 

I will live my life according to those truths. 

However, I come from a conservative family. A lot of right wing evangelical Christians. Of my family I have one sister left. Just one. Due to the differences in our beliefs, the decision has been made that we simply don't discuss politics. 

Do I know they think differently? 

Yes. 

Do they know I think differently?

Also yes. 

Am I going to change their hearts? 

No.

Are they going to change my heart? 

Also no. 

So, I accept that they vote their consciences just as I vote my own conscience, and I try very hard to respect them for that alone. I don't look any farther than that. 

So, while the post was placed by someone who I would agree with on many a topic, I disagreed with the sentiment of this post, I tried to verbalize that in a comment. 

Advice: Don't do that. Ever. 

People honestly seem to believe that family should be cut out for believing differently. I can tell you true, that's already happened with most of Tim's family. Even worse, I will be forever seen as the one who makes him think as he does. (Disclaimer: I'm not. He has his own strong opinions.) 

Is that fair? 

No. 

Respect, however is a two way street. 

So. Is it any fairer for that scenario to play out when I agree with the views?

Also no. 

Respect is still a two way street. 

However, you don't want to say something like that on social media. Take my word for it. 

Rumi: 'Out beyond the ideas of right-doing and wrong-doing, there is a field. I will meet you there. 




31 comments:

  1. I think I missed something interesting. Debby, keep on keeping on. 👍

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  2. I try to stay away from politics on FB although I occasionally tackle the topic on my blog where most of my relatives don't read. (just my older daughter and she agrees with me on most things) Sorry for the dust up. It's never a good feeling.

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    1. The thing is I wasn't talking about politics. I was talking strictly about whether it was required to shut out family who see things differently.

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  3. There are many things in life that can legitimately be disagreed with and there are people who have differing opinions. That's fine. But there are also facts and if alluding to the disaster to unfold in the US over the next few years or even decades, there are many studies and historical facts citing the results of banning abortions. Facts.

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    1. Not all people are open to facts. When a person views it as a sin, it becomes very easy to justify every bad thing that happens as a consequence of her sin. In their mind, they are outlawing murder. I believe that this is a decision for every woman to decide on her own. If Rowe v Wade is to be abolished, then the men need to be held just as accountable for the child as the women are. It is a sickening turn of events. That's for sure.

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  4. The internet is not conducive to debate. It's too easy to be misunderstood. Some things are best discussed face to face.

    You might be surprised just how many things you and I DO agree on, Debby... but wouldn't it be boring if we agreed on everything?? ;)

    -Kelly

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    1. I think that whenever people talk, they will find common ground.

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  5. I never swayed anyone with my opinions/thinking. If I did, I would then think they'd probably be swayed by someone else an hour later. I guess in my advanced years, I've learned to keep my trap shut. I don't do much social media....at least where I'm discussing MY opinions. I've been thrown under the bus too many times. I'm still seeing stars! LOL! We're all on a learning curve in this 'new age' of social media. It gets ugly. I'll pass. I totally agree with Kelly....the internet is not conducive to debate. I think you were very gracious in your handling of this situation.
    Paranormal John

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    1. I was not trying to debate politics. My point was that families can see things differently but still respect each other. Turns out that you are not considered being true to the cause (no matter what it is) if you do not attempt to 'educate' every person who thinks 'differently'. People were very offended that I do not feel the need to do that. I mean, if people ask me opinion, I'm not shy about giving it. I write letters. I send e-mails. I vote. But not everyone is not going to see things as I do. Some relationships are to valuable to cut off. We simply agree to disagree. In their defense, not one of them makes statements to me that are offensive. I try to accord the same respect.

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  6. I don’t read comments much, so I don’t know what happened. Whatever it was, it is hard to deal with complex issues on soc media. Even email can be difficult.

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    1. It was a facebook thing. I think people here are pretty reasonable.

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  7. I learned this lesson long ago. My brother and my brother in law are gun fanatics. Obama would take away their guns, they said. I could not change their minds. I loved my brother and respected my b-i-l, so I quit arguing. Guns are not abortions, but the point of avoiding arguments that cannot be won is the same.

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    1. It wasn't the issue we were debating. It was about cutting family off vs. accepting them as thinking differently.

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  8. Facts don't seem to change people's minds but we are allowed to disagree. I seldom stick my head up, usually I just quietly go away, although I am reconsidering that at present:)

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    1. I know a lot of us are reconsidering a lot at this point. I guess the issue became whether you can be totally committed to a cause while accepting that others in your family are not committed to the same cause. I think that you can be. You choose where you can make the difference. I know that no minds will be changed in my family. I guess I don't see tilting at windmills.

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  9. I think people should think long and hard before giving ultimatums, as long and hard as one should think before pressing the nuclear launch button or sentencing someone they love to death. I’m sure I would have agreed with every word you said on that Facebook post.

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    1. The problem to me is that I see something as simply the sensible thing. It always astonishes me when people find it controversial. The idea that you can be fully committed to a cause while accepting that your family might disagree turned out to be a real trigger. People are upset.

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  10. I agree with your thinking on this, Debby, but lately it is getting harder to stay friends with the crazy idiots!! I may agree to disagree with them but I may have to grit my teeth! Grrr!

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    1. My sister and her family just keep their opinions to themselves. I do the same. There are plenty of good things about them. If they were a family who couldn't stop talking about tRUMP and his stolen election and guns and fighting and God, guns and guts making 'Merica and Let's go Brandon, I'm sure things would have been very different. They value me. I value them. A detente has been reached and I will not breach it.

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  11. It's a minefield..whether you voice an opinion or not!
    Families...who'd have them? Sometimes!!

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  12. Thank you for being kind.

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    1. I don't even think it's kindness, really. I love my sister. We agree to disagree, and I think that is the only sensible way to do it. BTW, I really liked your blog post on it.

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  13. I understand Debby - there is a lot that my family and I don't always align on - and as my husband goes down the vortex of his religion an increasing amount that we don't agree on. It is easier to stay clear of the minefields than to shut doors. But it isn't ALWAYS easy.

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    1. Gotta say, Jeanie, that religious thing would scare the shit out of me. He's free to believe what he wants to believe. He's not free to insist that you believe likewise...which sums up this post, doesn't it?

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  14. Hmmmm...I think I missed that whole exchange. Your approach seems very sensible. People are not always going to agree, even (or especially?!) here in blogland, and I think the key is just to be kind and respectful, although I've probably said pretty sharp things myself from time to time. Dave's family is quite conservative and I just don't talk politics with them.

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  15. The exchange was on facebook. A relative, who I have to say holds many of the same viewpoints as I do posted that meme. I tried to post that families do sometimes not agree and that you should agree to let it go. Apparently people who are true to 'the cause' do not behave this way. Our job is to educate 'them', that 'they' want us to sit down and shut up.I believe you can feel passionately about something, but recognize that others think differently.

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