I can understand why so many people had grave concerns about a 14 year old boy having a gun. Given all the school shootings and violent episodes, sure. I totally get that.
But let me explain. The young man in question is a licensed youth hunter. He had to take a hunter safety course when he began hunting at 12. He has to hunt with a licensed adult until he is sixteen. His father is an experienced hunter. Like Tim, his brother was taught by their father.
The boy now has a gun, but he has not been turned loose with it. The gun will be safely stored. When he visits, he will take his gun out to hunt with his father and brother.
Are our gun laws adequate? No. I can assure you that they are not. For instance, my husband gave a gun to his youngest nephew. There is no paperwork that goes with that transaction.
Should there be?
We both think so.
This is how the law reads:
Registration Laws in Pennsylvania | Giffords https://share.google/UIizHeUkCwlZo4MOi
I believe the laws need to be strengthened. It is not an opinion shared by most people. "We don't need new laws! We need to enforce the laws on the books!"
You can see that there is not a lot to be enforced.
Let's talk about personal responsibility. Tim's nephew is a high achiever in school. A happy uncomplicated kid, a boy scout whose intentions are to reach Eagle Scout like his brother. But what if he were an awkward kid? Bullied. Prone to angry out bursts. Acting out. Emotionally immature? Uses violent terminology. Should he have access to a weapon? Of course not.
Unfortunately, Pennsylvania has no laws about weapon storage in the home.
Should they? Of course. But once again, people will fight tooth and nail against any changes to existing gun laws, screaming about their second amendment rights.
The sad fact of the matter is that the law is assuming that gun owners will be responsible.
They often are not.
James and Jennifer Crumbley trials: Parents of Oxford school shooter sentenced to 10 to 15 years | CNN https://share.google/1rgmChJJG35avyWvq
Adam Lanza’s Mental Problems ‘Completely Untreated’ Before Newtown Shootings, Report Says - The New York Times https://share.google/URlnhaTw4NMTkbaMn
In the case of the Crumbleys, they were called to the school over his disturbing drawings and threats. They dismissed the concerns and allowed him access to an assault weapon.
Adam Lanza's mother likewise ignored concerns and took her son to shooting ranges to practice.
The Uvalde shooter legally bought two assault weapons on his 18th birthday. He had 1682 rounds of ammo.
If assault weapons were not legal, nearly all school shootings would have been prevented. So simple.
Except it is not.
Kids cannot legally drink until they are 21. Why should they be allowed to buy an assault weapon at 18.
Second amendment rights.
People will try to debate the definition of an assault rifle, but the fact is, no matter what you call it, no hunter needs a weapon that fires hundreds of rounds per minute.
It doesn't make sense. You are right. We are left to use our own best judgement in this, and Tim did.
Agree or disagree, the fact is that we live in an area where people hunt. My husband is a hunter. He comes from a long line of them. So does his son. So does his nephews.
We eat what he brings home. It is the way it is.
I agree with you on all statements. My son was given a gun in his teens by his grandfather and with our ok. He was taught how to handle, shoot and safety in detail before he could use it. He went on to join the army at 17 and an Army Ranger at 18. He served 23 years. I have a granddaughter in college, and she had the same safety training as the boys, she loves to hunt and killed her first hog at 14 and a deer at 15, she then learned to skin, gut and clean a deer ready to cook. She is well rounded, and her mother taught her all the things she needed to run a house, and her father taught her the hunting and handling guns and probably boys.
ReplyDeleteYou know, writing this post, I have been considering something. I think some folks see a gun as a tool. Others see it as a sign of power. Those are the dangerous folks.
DeleteThe UK has very much more stringent gun laws, sufficiently draconian that many talented marksmen have been forced to train in other countries because of the restrictions. And some of those restrictions are impinging on the ability of countryside dwellers to manage vermin (and I would include deer in that category in many parts of the country).
ReplyDeleteSomewhere there must be a sensible middle way between what you describe for Pennsylvania and what we have here.
Will, we need more stringent rules here. I think most people would back those rules. But the NRA is an incredibly powerful and well funded lobbying group. I have never understood the difference between bribery and lobbying.
DeleteI must have commented early and missed the commentary. I live in a rural area. Our 4H program used to have a safe hunter program for kids. And the NRA used to do a lot with gun safety for young people (I am not aware of anything they do with that these days).
ReplyDeleteI am 100% on board with gun registration and safe storage of firearms. So much so that I personally believe that adults who allow juveniles access firearms through lack of safe storage should not only be prosecuted, but banned from future gun ownership. But that's not a popular opinion.
We recently had a middle school juvenile accidentally shoot his high school brother in a vehicle. They were the only two in the vehicle. This defies reason. Supposedly it was the teenagers gun. In my state he cannot purchase that gun at that age. So where did he get it?
Maybe two years ago I heard this call on my police scanner. A woman called and said she was shot by her son. Police raced to the locked house and broke in. The woman who was 8 months pregnant was making the bed with her toddler in the room. The toddler grabbed a high powered rifle that was sitting against the wall and had been modified by grampa who owns a gun store and somehow she was shot through the stomach. She was rushed to the hospital but bled to death on the way. The baby had been killed instantly. Dad was a former marine. There were not charges because this was a "tragic accident". Not in my opinion. It was an "accident" waiting to happen.
You and your husband and your brother-in-law are using what I call Right Judgement. You have evaluated the maturity of your nephew and are encouraging him to hunt safely.
And it is sad commentary that we don't have any reasonable gun safety laws in this country.
I had to add to this novel - this morning in the police log. Someone left their firearm in a room at the local motel when they checked out. The motel called the police who took it to the station and looked up the serial number and called the owner (who still didn't realize he just left it there). He was allowed to come to the station and pick it up. No charges.
DeleteThe thing is so clear to me. If guns were required to be registered, don't you think that would make crime investigation much easier?
DeleteI know that when guns were mentioned in a post some time ago, I was a little taken aback, but by this post I realized that your culture is different than my culture, so I wasn't aghast. We live in a rural area or at least adjacent, and I am sure that there are guns aplenty, but there are a lot of regulations too.
ReplyDeleteThat being said, there are people who want you to be intimidated by their weapon. I remember working in a store. The man waiting in my line made a real point of making sure I saw his gun. Now who needs a gun in the Tractor Supply Store? These are the dangerous people in my opinion...and they are the ones who scream loudest about their 2nd Amendment Rights.
DeleteThere is a huge difference between hunting families with deer rifles. You don't need a highpowered automatic weapon to hunt any kind of animal.
ReplyDeleteYou are absolutely right.
DeleteWhen I was growing up, 14 was the common age boys - and some girls - were given their first gun so they could go deer hunting with their fathers. By then they'd been handling family guns long enough and shown they could be trusted to have their own. It was a rite of passage really. So I thought nothing about your story; all I could imagine was how surprised and proud the kid must have been. For a deer hunter, your first gun is a Big Deal.
ReplyDeleteA Very Big Deal
DeleteIt’s funny because I’m very anti-gun and I’m British, and as remarked above, we have very stringent laws about firearms. But I didn’t blink when I read your previous post, because it was clear that this is a hunting rifle and you live in a hunting culture. I was more interested in the fact that William has decided he is not a hunter.
ReplyDeleteIt’s a very different culture to the one over here. After a terrible incident (committed by an adult, not a school child) handguns were banned in the UK and now even our Olympic team can’t practice here. I don’t believe shooting deaths have reduced since this. Athene
William went out with his Grandfather a few times. He just could not bring himself to pull a trigger. That is okay. Tim knew it was a possibility, and accepted his decision not to hunt.
DeleteReally brilliant post, I to am British and the thought of young teens having their own gun is against all of my fibre, but our country is different to yours. I total agree no one should require an assault weapon at any time, to use one is not sport.
ReplyDeleteThere is no legitimate reason for a citizen to own one. If they want to play with military grade weapons, let them join the military.
DeleteStill makes me open my eyes wide when I read about the easy availability of owning a gun in your country but I understand your totally different way of life.
ReplyDeleteAlthough I hope that it is one US tradition that doesn't ever cross the Pond to here!
Believe me Sue, some of the nonsense makes me open my eyes wide. It is simply wrong.
DeleteVery well said. I live in Maine, a rural state much like your part of PA. My family were not hunters, but I grew up with my classmates bringing rifles to school during bird season so they could hit the woods the minute the bell rang and with deer hanging from front yard trees on our street. It's hard to tread the middle ground when you find yourself between those not familiar with the culture who find all guns abhorrent and those who oppose and all regulation as a knee jerk reaction. You did good.
ReplyDeleteIt is a very emotionally charged subject. I tried very hard to sidestep all that and just talk facts.
DeleteI agree with everything you have said.
ReplyDeleteI really think if everyone could put emotion aside, a common sense approach would solve the lion's share of our gun problem.
DeleteWell written, but I still hope that gun culture never crosses the border. Gigi
ReplyDeleteI hope so too, but some comments from AC a while back led me into quite a rabbit hole. The US really is a big gun problem for the entire North American continent. That is not something you hear much about in the news.
DeleteI feel so unqualified to comment on your post. I just don't understand citizens needing guns, yet alone youth. I don't understand the pleasure in hunting and killing animals, while I do recognise that animals are killed for me to eat.
ReplyDeleteIt seems comment I will do. Further, at about the age of fourteen, I had been given an air gun. I pointed it at my brother and pulled the trigger. I put a slug hole in my bedroom window. I could have taken my brother's eye out. I knew the consequences of what I was doing, yet I did it. My father had taught me about safety with guns, but he didn't mind me shooting frogs to bits in our dam. No, no. Adults with guns are bad enough. Don't put them in the hands of youth.
DeleteI think the pleasure of it is more in the tracking, the watching, studying their habits, learning where they bed down. A clean shot is a thrill. Cutting, wrapping and eating gives you a comfortable feeling of self sufficiency.
DeleteYour last comment brings home a very important point: children need to be supervised.
I don't have a problem with guns being treated responsibly and I know kids starting hunting early, not my thing, but as long as you eat it, I think it's fine.
ReplyDeleteI can't imagine why Pennsylvania wouldn't require a gun safe in the home, just makes sense. You want your kids to be safe. It's the same reason we use seatbelts and car seats.
And you bring up a very good point, Pixie. If we simply applied the same rules to gun ownership as we apply to car ownership, we would have a very straightforward way to get this situation under control.
DeleteI grew up in an area of deer hunting, and the most successful hunters study habitat, are stewards of wildlife, and practice excellent sportsmanship. My immediate family did not participate, and I consider myself anti-guns. The point I agree with Debby about is that hunting can, in fact, be separated 180 degrees from irresponsible use.
ReplyDeleteBonnie in Minneapolis
And it is the irresponsibility that we all need to start addressing.
DeleteYou know I am married to a hunter and so of course he has guns. Are they hand guns? No. Are they assault rifles? No. Does he think those guns should be illegal?
ReplyDeleteYes.
Exactly.
DeleteI grew up in an anti gun household (unfortunately abuse was allowed). My oldest sister married a man who was a hunter and he believed as you describe here. He and another brother-in-law were my only examples of good men when I was a child. I married a farmer (also a wonderful man) who is not a hunter but always had a gun in our home locked away except needed to protect our livestock. We also allowed hunters we knew well to hunt on our land during hunting season. Great post and discussion here Debby. Thank you for tackling a tough subject.
ReplyDeleteIt is an important subject. We can't continue to pretend it doesn't exist.
DeleteI view hunting deer as a public service. Bellevue, WA does not cull their deer herds, and they are everywhere. Front yard, back yard, looking in the kitchen windows, traveling the public walking trails. Everywhere. They love the city, lots of things to eat. Sport killing is bad, eating what you kill is no different than meat on a piece of styrofoam.
ReplyDeleteYou are exactly right. And when populations get that large, they compete for food and many end up starving... a much worse death than a clean kill from a hunter who will use the meat. It's funny how many people condemn hunting, yet think nothing about where that piece of meat on the styrofoam comes from. They're hypocrites. We raised beef cattle (hobby farm) for a while and it always made me sad to see them leave on a cattle trailer. And I'm allowed to say that since I've been a vegan for more than ten years. That said, I still cook meat for my family, so I'm obviously not an ethical vegan.
DeleteYou both address an important mm part of the equation
DeleteHunters in my home, as well, though neither of us do any hunting anymore. I don't even get a hunting license now... I just have my "senior" fishing license. Of course a license is not required for things like feral hogs which are an incredibly bad problem down here.
ReplyDeleteCan wild boar be eaten, Kellie?
DeleteWell done Debbie and a very good explanation. It is beyond complicated, but you took it in hand and explained the good and (negative) sides of our culture here in the states. Semi-automatic guns need to go away...permanently, but the constitution change requires a huge shift, and I sincerely hope I live long enough to see it happen.
ReplyDeleteMe too, Camille.
DeleteI grew up in a household that had guns. My father was a once in a great while hunter. He bought me a 22 when I was twelve, but not until I had completed a training course and also a thorough and stern talking to about gun safety from him. I went deer hunting with him once and pheasant hunting twice. After those two occasions I decided it was not for me. The key thing is that as long as gun safety is taught and strictly enforced I see no issues with a young person owning a firearm. It is also critical that any firearms in a home should be secured and the young person not be allowed to access them without adult supervision. ps: Allison's right about deer!!
ReplyDeleteThey are a terrible problem here as well. Now that the rut has started, it will be even worse.
DeleteLegally drinking alcohol at 21? It's east for kids to get booze long before 21. I got booze when I was 14. It was just plain wrong but it happened.
ReplyDeleteRight. This is true. But it is illegal which means the kid can get in trouble and so can the adults who provide it.
Delete