Thursday, May 4, 2023

Tenants

 We are at a work slowdown on the renovation. We've had a tenant move out and now have a house to bring back on line. 

We are not disappointed that she moved out. We had been agonizing about what to do. We have a cardinal rule. We don't rent to family. The reason for this is invariably, something comes up. Always, there will be a dispute about something and the next thing you know, you have the whole fam-damily up in arms. In this case, the tenant wasn't family, but she had strong ties to Tim's family. We should have known better. but, when she was interested in the house, because we knew her, she was a pretty easy choice. She stayed for five years and we truly never had a problem with her. Then she got a boyfriend. 

They asked to buy the house from us, probably nearly a year ago.  After discussing it, we said yes. Because she had rented from us for so long, we gave her a lower price. They seemed to be quite pleased with the offer at the time it was made. She did come back later, via IM and ask if we would consider lowering the price, which surprised us a little, considering no other house in town was selling at that price. 

Tim and I discussed it, and then I sent the reply back. "No. We were going to remain firm on the price." Given the two car, two story garage with attached workshop, and the fact that the house had been renovated completely before she moved in, we thought that $63,000 (oh man! I was wrong...$75,000) was more than fair. 

Her response came back: "Okay. Just thought I would ask." 

We thought no more about it until a relative sent us some very angry messages that she'd received, complaining that they'd fixed up the house out of their own pocket because we would not do anything, about the fact that the house was in poor shape, about the fact that she'd given us $60,000 in rent over the years. Even worse, she complained bitterly about me, that she knew that it was me typing the message, and how rude and controlling I was. 

We messaged her expressing surprise that she would feel that way. The house was not in poor shape. Not at all. We  had bought the house, renovated it, and she was the first tenant. It was newly carpeted. New bathroom. New kitchen. New appliances. Refinished hardwood floors. She loved that house, and often posted pictures on facebook of her home decorating. I pointed out that it was really unfair to expect that five years of rent would be applied towards the purchase price. We corrected her $60,000 claim to less than $35,000. We also pointed out that during the covid years when beauty shops were not open, we gave her a reduction in rent. Once, when she had a health crisis, we had contacted her and forgave her rent for a period of time until she was back on her feet. I said that it really bothered us a great deal that we really tried to go above and beyond in our duty as landlords (it forms the basis of our business model: if you take care of your tenants, they stay for the long term). I also pointed out that her criticism of me was unwarranted. Tim and I are a team. He does not like to type. We both discussed the situation, and while I had sent the message, it conveyed both our thoughts, not mine alone. To have her go to Tim's family and criticise me was unkind. 

There was a lot of back and forth. She was very apologetic, and it was obvious that she did not intend that we should ever get word of what was being said. She loved her house. She thought the price was fair. On and on. She closed with the explaination that she had only reached out to the family because she knew they didn't like me. 

Ouch. 

The boyfriend got involved. 

Tim got mad. This is a rare thing. Tim seldom gets his tail in a twist, but this made him mad. He simply rescinded the three month old offer to sell the house, his reasoning being that number one, they'd never be able to get a loan, both of them being people living over their means, and with some employment issues. This would mean that they wanted to do a rent to own with us. We were not willing to take on that level of risk. Number two, every time that there was a problem with the property, we would be portrayed as 'ripping them off'. We would forever be the bad guys, complaints to family, whenever a problem arose. 

They were very upset about the decision, and their response was to come back and lay out the fact that terrible things were already being said about me in the family, and that the person who forwarded her messages to us was a key player in those discussions. 

I know it. So does Tim. I mean, it has gone on for years. Neither one of us felt like dredging it all up again. 

So there we were. The boyfriend began to become troublesome and challenging. Tim and I discussed back and forth how to handle it. In the end, she decided that the situation was uncomfortable and left on her own. We were not sorry. 

We are, however, a little shocked at the damage. In the bathroom, a table was bolted directly into the wall to be used as a vanity. It did not match with anything and needs to be taken out. Wall repair. In the laundry room, a knob was broken on the washer. The shelves we had put up running behind the washer and dryer had been taken down and replaced with cupboards of some sort. They had been simply ripped from the walls leaving serious damage. More wall repairs. Quite strangely, an area rug had been screwed onto wall to wall carpeting. A cell phone charging shelf had been built next to the bed out of scrap wood. I was horrified to think someone had been messing with the wiring of the house. All these things are in violation of the signed lease. 

Ugh. 

And yet...we can still count our problem tenants over 15 years of renting on one hand. 

There are a lot of horror stories about being landlords. These tenants will not receive their full deposit back and they will be enraged about it. They will complain bitterly to everyone that will listen, but they are the exception to the rule. We will take the lessons from this situation and we will make sure that we do not repeat our mistakes. 

50 comments:

  1. My gosh, after reading this I can't help but wonder why anyone would want to be a landlord. 15 or so years ago, when I'd amassed some fairly large personal savings and knew I needed to do something with the money than just let it sit in the bank, I thought long & hard between buying real estate or putting it into the stock market. I chose to invest it, and while it hasn't ALWAYS paid off, it still feels a lot less frustrating to deal with. Debby I have a strong feeling your tenant is going to have some big regrets once she's settled elsewhere...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I know that we will all be happier now that the decisions have been made.

      Delete
  2. As the saying goes, no good deed goes unpunished. I would have trouble letting go of this on an emotional level, but you've dealt with the family members and know what to expect from them. Still tough though. They sound toxic and you're well rid of them.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. She's just someone who always portrays herself as a victim.

      Delete
  3. My parents used to rent out old farm houses as they bought farms of people moving to town. Experiences like you described above were the rule and not an exception, unlike your experience overall. They were thrilled when the last renter moved out and the last house had been bulldozed in, burned and buried. You have to be a saint to be a rental landlord in my opinion. Saint Debby!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I can assure you that I am the farthest thing from a saint that you can imagine. It's more like unemotional. You have to be completely unemotional and stick to the business at hand. I am usually not good at that.

      Delete
  4. No good deed goes unpunished. You & Tim have conducted yourselves admirably in this situation, these folks attempted to take advantage of you. Good riddance.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. For me, the hardest part is separating the emotion from the business. In this case, it was Tim that was angry. He was the one making decisions based on emotion. That was a real switch for us. They made the decision that was best all around, but oh my. We never would have expected to see what we saw once inside. It makes you nervous to see wiring redone.

      Delete
  5. We have experienced it all. We recently bulldozed 2 rental houses rather than invest in necessary renovations…and then suffer another round of renters. By the time you pay taxes, insurance and maintenance, it is not worth the minuscule income received. We purposely did not re-rent a couple of vacant properties during covid because I would rather see them set vacant than end up with a tenant that wouldn’t pay rent just because they legally didn’t have to. We have been good landlords, like you, and have frequently foregone rent whenever there were financial issues. But, that does not assure a good tenant. I could write a book. But, there were a couple of good ones…a minority.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Wow. Reading that, I have to say that we have been very fortunate, really.

      Delete
  6. Have you ever paid a renter to leave? I have.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yes we have. It is the quickest way to get a problem tenant gone. It is usually also the cheapest. Cheaper than taking it through the courts.

      Delete
  7. I am sorry you had to go through this and it's too bad that so many hard feelings will be left behind for you and for them. I imagine it is tricky to be a landlord but you guys know what you are doing. Better luck with the next tenant!

    ReplyDelete
  8. Its terrible that you were taken advantage of like that. I rented for a long time and having a good relationship with your agents or landlords is 101 to having a decent home. Jeanie

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I really don't think we were taken advantage of. She paid her rent. We liked her. Her boyfriend just seemed to change the dynamics of our relationship. Suddenly she seemed to believe she was being cheated.

      Delete
  9. What a bummer! I'd make a copy of the agreement that states no renovations or additions to walls, make copies of photos of the offending renovations and send it to both tenets and her family. That will help explain the reduction in deposit. You were most kind to forgo rent when she was in a jam. Take a deep breath! Linda in Kansas

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. We took pictures and are saving receipts. Since we do our own maintenance, we do keep track of our hours. They will be billed for that. No matter how careful and complete our record keeping, they will feel that we cheated them.

      Delete
  10. Ugh. What a situation. It takes a lot of patience to be a landlord, I think. (Unless you're my landlord. LOL)

    I think your ideas about not renting to family are sound. It also seems like you have some family members who like to stir the pot!

    ReplyDelete
  11. Yeah...you are right on that. It is easier just to sidestep it.

    ReplyDelete
  12. My friend rented an apartment and had her landlord put in the lease that only one person and one cat can live here. She has had a couple of friends want to live with her, she just tells them one person, one cat.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. We have never had a tenant request that. I would totally do it though.

      Delete
  13. My husband I have been landlords and for a long time, rented out a basement apartment beneath our house.
    Oh. God.
    Never again. The saying, "No good deed goes unpunished" is way too true. Although I will say that we had some delightful tenants. Unfortunately, they did not stay long enough.
    Sigh.
    I have stories.

    ReplyDelete
  14. Ugh. In your house??!! I imagine you do have stories!

    ReplyDelete
  15. I have been a landlord to the tenants in the other half of the duplex I own and live in for 36 years. Only 4 tenants ever caused any problems.
    I now have a lease which limits how many people can live there, no pets, no drugs or smoking, no screws into any surface in the house, no car washing on the premises (I pay for the water and there are multiple car washes in town), no subletting. and if someone else other than on the lease stays there for longer than 3 weeks, they have to go through signing a new lease with possible higher rent and have credit and personal and police/court records references checked. This eliminates friends couch surfing, extended "parties", and disreputable people staying there. I live in the same building and "owner-occupied" carries some weight in the courts here in Michigan.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I guess the benefit of duplex living is that you'd be able to keep an eye on things. Ours are clustered on one street, for the most part. We had one gal maybe three years ago that was a real party girl. She posted pictures and videos of said parties, and we said, "Oh my," because we recognized the house. She was the most astounding person. She had a bed in her livingroom and that seemed to be where everyone hung out. We went there to replace a refrigerator once. Everyone was in bed and stayed there watching television while we huffed and puffed and finangled things through the door.

      Delete
  16. Oh goooosh!!!! That is AWFUL, Debbie! What horrible people! We also have a small property we rent out, but we have someone managing it. It still causes problems at times. There were neighbors of our renters who contacted us that our tenants were making too much noise, etc. Sigh... We told our manager to take care of it, and we're glad it's better, I think.

    Oh... and then the time the renter's child threw something in the toilet which clogged it and somehow flooded the bathroom and caused massive damage in the first floor ceiling and one of the walls. Sigh...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. LOL. Our very worst tenant was a woman who had destroyed her previous house. We are very good at vetting, but the woman simply used her maiden name. There was no red flags under that name. She left a bathtub running and it over flowed. It destroyed not only the bathroom, but badly damaged the kitchen beneath it. We ended up simply not renewing her lease. It took weeks to clean the house, to include removing used feminine hygiene products from the floor of the bathroom. OMG. It was so disgusting.

      Delete
  17. These are problems nobody needs. I always wonder how there can be such people.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Well, Red, what I think is that some folks seem to need drama in their life. If they don't have it, they make it.

      Delete
  18. Might be worth taking screenshots of her positive Facebook posts too, if you can, just in case. I’m so sorry you have to deal with this!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Meh. They're out. We actually showed the house last night in all it's un-put-back-together glory to a tenant we sincerely adore. She has made the decision to begin doing foster care, something that our county is in desperate need of. She lives in a small upstairs apartment right now. We met her at the house last night. We wanted to give her first dibs on it. She teaches at a head start, and there is one of their facilities right across the street. It is a small three bed, two bath house, very cute. She really seems to love it and is crunching the numbers right now.

      Delete
  19. $75,000 wouldn't buy a house here in Australia, maybe a very run down shack in a tiny country town, but it would need a lot of repair.
    Your tenant sounds like a nightmare and now you have all that fixing to do! Did you not do yearly or six monthly inspections while they were there? It's common here for landlords to do walk-through inspections at least once a year until they see the tenant is a good one.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The median price of houses in this area is $139,000. We bought this house a few years back for $20,000. Since we do the fixing up ourselves, it gives us a great deal of flexibility, money-wise. We try very hard to be fair.

      Delete
  20. What a horror story! Makes me glad that I've never had enough money to invest in more than my own house.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It's provided us a very nice retirement income.

      Delete
  21. Gosh, you can do without people like that in your lives and you are well rid. I hope that the damage isn't too costly in money or your time to fix. We once let out mum's flat, as a favour, to some people who had bought a cottage nearby and were making additions - think making it AIRTIGHT! They paid the rent fine, but because there wasn't any heating in the kitchen and they overstayed the original agreement, we ended up with a gigantic electricity bill of £400 (some years back now) as they heated the kitchen by putting the oven on full-pelt all day long! They nearly caused a fire by putting too big a bulb in a fitting, which melted the fixture and were just generally very unpleasant people. They are still the oddballs in the valley. Being professionals counts for nothing.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. A good job is no guarantee of a good person, that's for sure. Tim's been working to pull it all together. I had some oral surgery and took a couple days off. I am back to work today. I think it will pull together quickly.

      Delete
  22. We were briefly landlords, renting out a small starter home to a couple. I could forsee after the first few years that things could get tricky so we thought it best for our peace of mind to sell that house and just stick the money in the bank. Lower returns of course but better for my mental health!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I really had to put my foot down. Tim would go on amassing houses forever. My argument is always, "How much is enough, Tim?" Sure, if we got more houses, we'd have more income, but, as you note, the headaches increase as well. We have a nice number, and at this point, all the rentals are well renovated, which means we are not spending a lot of time (and money) on upkeep. We're in a good place.

      Delete
  23. We are just entering our Landlord Phase, and I will learn from your lessons - I think I have learned never mix business with friends but always I keep doing that. No more!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Oh, boy. I let Tim do the business end of it for the most part because he can make his decisions while being completely emotionally detached. For a fact, every single time that my do-gooder heart has been involved, it has bit us in the ass. EVERY TIME!

      Delete
  24. Had all those problems with renters and more,we even had problem with a rental management company who allowed a couple to live rent free for months before the courts got rid of them. We also had renters in the building we owned where our store was, but with rent controls in our city it just became impossible so we sold the building at a huge profit and we retired almost 35 years ago. Would never be a landlord again! The average house price in Toronto is now about a million bucks, crazy.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Here, court evictions are a very lengthy process. We are very lucky to have never had to do one. Our two worst cases simply quietly moved out when their leases were not renewed. Two we offered a cash reward for them to leave in 'x' amount of time. They took the offer immediately, and to be perfectly frank, both times it took surprisingly little financial incentive. House prices have gone nuts here, as well.

      Delete
  25. What a turn up....and relief that you have the house back AND a decent prospective tenant.

    Families, as they say..who'd have 'em?!
    Pirate is rather upset that his son hasn't sent us an anniversary card...let alone a present....but I gather that Pirates ex has expressed friendly greetings....they did split up effectively twenty years ago!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I guess that we have just stopped being bothered by it. We have been married for 25 years. At. One time it was a big problem. Now it simply doesn't matter.

      Delete
  26. We were once landlords for a very short period of time. I wold not do a repeat.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I doubt I would be successful left to my own devices.

      Delete
  27. Wow. What a nightmare, Debby. Sorry you and Tim had to deal with this and made out to look like the bad guys. It's a shame that they took advantage of your generosity.

    ReplyDelete
  28. I guess that I don't see it as taking advantage so much as this new boyfriend changed the dynamics completely. For four of our five years, we had no problems at all. Zero. The new fellow came in, and suddenly, there was a whole lot of open dishonesty. He was an alpha male type who simply expected that in his house, things went his way. Problem was, it wasn't his house. Once the word 'no' was uttered, they both got cranky.

    ReplyDelete

I'm glad you're here!

A Better Day

 First of all, I want to thank every single person who recommended 'Puckoon'. Oh my gosh. It has been a long time since I laughed so...